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Selling other people’s product with Matt McWilliams

Interview with Matt McWilliams

welcome everyone I am super excited to have with me today, Matt McWilliams, and I'm just going to give you a quick control so that you know what Matt he is and what he's doing.
So if you want to call your influence, have a bigger impact and make more money in the process, he's your go to guy on tribunals and companies.
The chance.
Michael I at Ray Edwards, Brian Tracey Lee with House Shutterfly, Jeff Gordon's and Ziegler family.
I've trusted Matt to run their athlete launches.
Matt helps all and business owners and brands small in knowledge to leverage the power of partners to grow their businesses.
It teaches you how to make one has nfi eight and how to work better with affiliates.
So welcome, Matt.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
Hey, thanks for having me.
I think my intro is a lot cooler with a French accent.
All right, cool.
Yeah, I can do your own choice.
If you want.
We'll just do that.
We'll just have you court a video will take that will just take what we recorded.
Send me that.
I'll crop it out and we'll just have that play before I speak.
I'm happy to if you want todo my guests.
Yeah.
So the reason I have you here, Matt, is because I think you have a lot to share with the Ho Jin's I waas, you know, really watching your videos.
And of course, I know a bit about what you are doing.
I don't know a lot of people that do affiliate marketing really, really well, and I definitely didn't know you do that very well.
Any kitchen.
So you have You're on both sides of things, and, uh, I'm so happy to have you here, so I'm going to get started with the call upon of questions that I have for you, if that's okay.
All right.
So the first thing ISS could you describe to us what it is exactly that she dio and would you do it for and how you're helping people? Yeah.
So this is one of those questions, like, I always have such a hard time entering with the general public, and so I'm going to assume that if you're watching, you have at least an understanding of what affiliate marketing is because when I try to explain this to the in laws.
It never goes well, so I'm just like you explain it.
My wife explains everything, and she does a great job of explaining what we do to people who don't know anything about Internet marketing.
But assuming that you at least have a basic understanding of what affiliate marketing is, our business is actually components.
We got three areas of our business.
Number one we have, and I'll dig into them in a second.
We have our client work.
We work with clients you mentioned before.
Like Michael Hyatt.
Ray Edwards worked with Louis House, Brian Tracy and others.
Then we have our coaching and consulting side, which is essentially where I coaching consult people who want to run their own affiliate programs.
But I really run it for them.
And then the third side is our courses in our products, and right now you know it's our business is evolving.
Last year it was 90% client work, 10% everything else.
Our goal this year was to get to 50 nowhere.
Client work only made up 50% of our revenue because the down side you know, we're talking about lifestyle lunch, but it's the downside.
The client work is there are certain days of the year and certain periods of time where it's like I don't have that flexibility that I want now that's not 365 days a year, and it's we're getting it down to less than 100 so that za wind.
But I want to get client worked where we rely less and less on that for our revenue.
So those three areas look like your client work.
We literally run the affiliate launches for our clients, and I made an intentional decision last year.
We limited that the five clients that it like this all we work with is our five core clients.
And it was one of those things like we said, OK, if these people came to us today, would we work with them? And if the answer wasn't absolutely, we just you know, we had tough conversations with people, and we we got rid of some clients, and it's if if they're not already on our dream list and I'll tell you, there's two people in the entire face of the Earth that are on our dream list right now that we don't have we have the other five.
We have a five of Evan.
If you're not on our dream list and you come to us right now, the answer is no.
You know, we're not We're not gonna work with you now.
The second component is that we do some consulting, which is essentially where I teach you how to do what we dio and in a very accelerated pace compared to our courses, we teach people how to run your work with affiliates.
And then the third component is our courses, which is more of ah, you know, admittedly like later today I've actually got a call with some of our students where we teach people how to do two things.
We teach people how to do what we do, but it's not.
It's hands off.
It's like here's the course independent study.
And then we teach people how to do affiliate marketing.
So we have a course called no product.
No problem where we teach people how to make money, you know, passive income in some active income with affiliate marketing.
And I kind of missed, you know, the most obvious fourth part of our business is you know, we do a lot of affiliate marketing exactly for us.
That's actually I literally just ran the numbers.
I gotta push it right here because we're updating a page, um, on our website to talk about how much we made in the last calendar year.
We made $113,392 Justin affiliate commissions.
So that stuff where we didn't have to do, I mean the like, The great thing about affiliate marketing is the level of work that we put into.
It is very low compared to the return.
I promise you, as a company, we did not spend more than 100 hours to make that $113,000.
So it's ah, good are oi because we're not creating the product versus my courses.
I know what goes into those thean front of a camera for about 100 hours to get the right takes in the right versus so I don't like making horses.
I like having made a course, but I don't like making them.
So that's our business.
In a nutshell.
It's kind of those four areas, and right now it's tilted toward client.
But we're trying to get that down.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Yes.
So we do do affiliate marketing is actually actually a few years back.
That's kind of all we were doing.
And we we were doing really well at some point.
It was not at all in the online marketing space, but we got basically barren by, you know, putting too many eggs inducing baskets.
And if something happens to the proper product, then you're in trouble because you're not in control.
So that's that one of the issues.
But I'm sure you're teaching that, and there are ways to you touch a good point there.
Natalie.
It's like as much as I love affiliate marketing, I'm the affiliate guy.
I have a podcast do 365 episodes a year on the affiliate Guy daily, talking about affiliate marketing.
I produce over 200 videos a year.
I do live events and blawg post.
I mean, like, I like this stuff right? In fact, I love it.
It wakes me up.
I'm passionate about it, and I still say that it shouldn't be all of your, you know, your revenue.
Like for us.
It's a large part of our revenue, but our affiliate commissions.
That 113,000 is a little bit less than 25% of our revenue.
So it's one of those things.
If all of the affiliate programs we promote dropped us tomorrow, I'd be upset, frustrated last about 48 hours because I have the other 77%.
It's the same thing with our clients.
Like if one of our clients quit, I'd be I mean, I would be disappointed would be introspective, like Why did they quit? What did we do wrong? But it doesn't affect whether or not we get to go on vacation next month.
It doesn't affect whether or not my kids get to get on the school.
We choose for them because it's such that anyone client is effectively such a small percentage of our revenue.
And that's what we have is we have all these different revenue streams that none of them.
There's a single like if you break our affiliate promotions down to individual programmes, our clients down to individual streams of products and all that, there's not a single stream of income we have that we were close to 10% of our revenue, so you dried up It's like Well, that sucks.
But yeah, that that is out some, I mean, for our ship was like 90 person was like on one product.
We managed to rank number one in Google in front of them, and from that time they were really mad.
And they did everything to basically not help us.
So we decided to late, so but yeah, they finished.
I think that's one of the keys, miss, after get marketing is to diversify.
And for us, it's definitely icing on the cake.
So now and you know, it kind of like takes enough time to build up that, uh, you know, monthly recurring revenue that we have because we do have a figure eight on recurring products.
So that is awesome.
And I mean, when you get you know, this payment every month and then it keeps growing and growing, that is a pretty awesome feeling.
So for me, it's more like an ongoing work from their tools that I use every day when I build memberships and you know, websites, and if it makes any money, that is awesome.
If it doesn't, it's OK.
It's not like gonna be like he said, you had on the world, but definitely icing on the cake.
So we are still, you know, big into affiliate with believing it.
But we want have all our whole business, you know, on that.
Definitely.
And so one thing that I really liked that you said is that you were working on turning your business into, you know, talking about a lifestyle like less one on one work and then more off.
Maybe the consulting And maybe selling your online courses is not what you know.
Yeah, you know, you and I were chatting right before this common I mentioned my family's going out of town for two days.
This will be the first time that wasn't planned that I've ever missed of vacation.
And it's just ah, right now we're in about a 20 day period.
That is like, it's it's are year, you know, like a large.
I mentioned diversifying, but 15 to 20% of our revenue will be made in the next 20 days, and so that for us, that is a large chunk, and I've just got stuff to do.
And it didn't make sense for me to go on this.
Um, I would like to get to.
You know the point where that's not the case, and I I love the fact, you know, I work from home, so working from home means that I do have a certain level of discipline.
I do have office hours, but it also means that sometimes at one o'clock in the afternoon, when my daughter asked me to go play soccer, it means I can, Yeah, I mean, that's lifestyle.
It's not about not working hard.
I work hard, you know? Um, it's about having that freedom.
I you know, I think there's this, like, if you I've never done this.
But I might try to because I'm kind of curious.
I would bet could be wrong that if you Google lifestyle images are lifestyle, entrepreneur, lifestyle, business and then went to Google images, What you're going to see is the cliche guy sitting on a chair on the beach top out.
Yeah, I bet I Okay, I think that's something to aspire to that.
To me, that's not necessary.
I think I think it's like it's kind of like people thinking, OK, what I'm gonna do in six months is being Olympic sprinter.
I don't know If that's I don't know if you're going from my couch potato like I'm not gonna be an Olympic sprinter in six months.
I'll just put it that way.
Yeah, you know.
What I can do, though, is I could get a lot faster and I can learn, you know, to run faster and get in better shape.
And I think for me, lifestyle business is more about that.
No one is telling me what to do and when to do it.
Lifestyle businesses that, you know.
I'm giving up my team call every day from 11 30 to approximately 12 15.
I do want walking.
I walked two miles every day while I'm on the phone.
All of my consulting calls.
If they're not video, I do while walking their days, there's There's one day a week where I log over 10 miles walking while working.
That's a lifestyle.
Bins like absolutely people don't get to walk 10 miles a day.
Yeah, exactly.
Me lifestyle business is pretty good.
Chunk of the days, A lunch with my family.
I very rarely do not eat dinner with them.
I'd say 363 days a year.
I eat dinner with my family.
Um, in fact, the only days actually a little bit less than because I have a group I go to some Tuesday nights, but that's a whole different story.
You know, lifestyle business is to me, it's that it's it's not.
It's not.
Necessarily, if that's your aspiration in life is to sit on a beach and work on a laptop.
That's fine to me.
It's actually that, like when I am working, I'm working.
I've got, you know, to monitor.
I've got three monitors going here, one of the side, and like for some number of hours, it might be four.
Some days it might be ate some days, and there's occasionally about 10 days year words like 15.
I'm all in, and I'm not thinking about anything but work.
But the second that I click off, I'm done For me.
A life stop is will tell you this fun fact about me.
I don't own a smartphone.
In 2007 I was one of the first probably 50,000 people to get an iPhone.
I have the original iPhone and we pre ordered it from.
I think it was from Sprint at the time and our AT and T we proved from A T and T because they have that exclusive and we got it like you were one of the very first people are in our company.
We had iPhones.
I noticed something ironic, though.
Is that like I would leave the office at six o'clock, but I'd still be working at nine.
Mr.
We working at 10 o'clock now is single.
So it didn't matter that I got married.
She didn't like that.
I didn't like that.
So I literally threw my granted.
I probably should have been less dramatic about it and, you know, could have given it to somebody.
But I literally threw it into the woods on and I have I don't think it's down here.
I got it.
It's upstairs so it won't ring in the middle of this.
I've got a dumb phone that can't even access the Internet.
I nobody text me.
People know better.
I get like, one text every six months, and it's usually from like my uncle who's fording me a text.
So when I'm off, I'm off.
And that, to me, is what lifestyle businesses.
So I think there can be this misconception.
This is lifestyle.
Business has to fit into this box.
If I travel the world and I do this and it can, it just doesn't have to.
Exactly.
I think that's exactly that's exactly on point exactly how I feel lifestyle to me.
Lifestyle Entrepreneurship is whatever you want it to be.
And for some people, it's going to be, you know, working on Lee in the mornings and having their afternoons off for some people is working their butt off for six months and then taking six months off.
So it's not necessarily being on the beach.
Place your laptop.
Actually, if I am on the beach, I don't want to be with my not exactly right.
I mean, that's Xeni.
That's that's hard.
You don't get much done and what I'm learning right now, as we are trying to be more efficient with that lifestyle because, you know, we think we've been working too much why you feel like you left a 9 to 5 for 24 7 because there was always something to doing business.
And when you're passionate about what you're doing and you always want to up level and go to the next act.
There was always something to Dio.
So what I found is really, uh, lifestyle entrepreneurship.
It's more about setting some rules and saying, You know, this is this is the boundaries reason I'm going to be working and this is the like I want to have.
And that means you have some strict rules, meaning that when you work your focused and you are productivity's about working smarter, not harder.
It's not about more hours.
It's about focused hours on your own.
And you can work, actually, not less if you are able to do that, and I know it's hard.
It's a big mindsets chief that I had to happen because we've been in this business for 12 years now.
But it's on Lee.
We've only being here like successful and being able to live from it dialects to six years, and now we are working toe worlds.
You know, we're all you know, making the money.
Now we're working store, how we can make even more get to the next that, but again, having that fly style back and being able to go whenever we want to go, just like he said.
And sometimes it's not possible that's also part off.
You know, being a business owners, it's sometimes there are what plan? You know, times were You can't go.
There are things you have to do.
I think you meet ski.
There is not like a definition to lifestyle.
It's whatever you wanted to be.
And that's the freedom to get your freedom.
You have to make those rules in place like I get to work.
And then I get to have the fun.
Yeah, it's the irony.
A Craig Ballantine talks about this.
Ah, you know, the perfect life.
I just finished the book again.
Like a great thing about this.
Yeah, the discipline equals freedom.
I just read.
Where is it? Right here.
Actually, I don't know if you have the art of power, but not by Tom about Thomas Jefferson.
And it talks in there about how his life was so structured and how that gave him freedom.
And, you know, like I can't work at the beach.
So we go to Florida for a few weeks earlier this year together in the winner, to escape the winters here in Indiana.
And, you know, every day I'd sit down about 10 10 30 I try to work.
And by about 11 11.
30 I would think of my family out there on the beach having fun.
I mean, it's 82 degrees in the middle of February.
It's gorgeous.
The beaches started to empty, you know, less crowded.
I'm like, I can't do this.
So I finally, after about a week of trying to do that, I actually called one of the guys that work for me, and I just said, Hey, listen, um, I'm available if you need to call me, but just know I'm not gonna get any work done.
I'm just taking the next week off.
You know, that's freedom.
We did that after Christmas.
We finished one of our big launches with Michael High It It ended December 15th.
We had some loose ends to tie up, and we said, OK, from December 19th of January 4th, our company is closed.
We're just completely closed on January 3rd.
Know Jamie On January 4th at 7 p.
m.
I call on the guys in my team and I said, I need another week.
I just need another week.
So, um, I need you to take over like do a few things feel free to take off if you want to as well.
I'm just gonna take off.
You know, I need another week to just rest and there's some stuff.
You know, I was so tired the first week of that two weeks that I started relaxing the second week, and by the third week, I was like, Now I've got There's actually some errands I need to run and some things I need to do for the family.
So I'm gonna take that week office Well, and I did.
And it was like I realized how many people have ever had that conversation in this out of 100 people less than to get to just decide 7 p.
m.
On Sunday that they're gonna take off next five days.
That's lifestyle.
Like my life.
Don't sit.
I need another week off.
Yeah, that's the freedom.
That's the That's the real freedom of being able to do that.
Absolutely.
I mean, we are, you know, we are e mean this summer.
We are not really taking, you know, vacation off.
But we left for four days, and we just decided to go, and then we might decide to go.
You know, we're thinking about it again because we can, because we can move our schedule around, and that's what I can, you know, like true true freedom.
So it's It's not like you're not working, you know, like you don't have anything, you know, you don't do anything and the business fronts on this wound that that that that would be nice that, you know, we're not there.
I want to say something real quick.
I get all about busting misconceptions and myths.
That's what I do for a living in innocence, the like, AL occasion.
So I have this gut feeling there, people watching it.
Well, that's great that you get to go to Florida for three.
That's great that you get to do that.
But like I'm just starting my business.
Trust me.
I've been there, done that.
When I started my first business, it was seven days week, 14 15 hours a day.
You know what? Here's the thing for five Loved every minute of it.
I was.
Nobody was forcing me to do it.
Secondly, it's like we have a big product launch coming up, and so right now is busy.
You know what I chose this time I chose the month of August for this launch.
Nobody else chose it for me.
I got it was on our calendar.
Like me and my team.
We picked it based on what worked best for us.
You know, we had a guy having a baby, so he was gonna be out for a few weeks and then this, you know, And we didn't want Labor Day kind of affected.
It was like, No, we're going to do it.
And this is when we're going to do it.
But when I first started my business like I still had this freedom and that freedom was that I did calls on walks that on.
Yes, I was working ridiculous hours, but I got to choose what I was doing, and I got to choose who I worked with.
I occasionally did work while watching a basketball game, and, you know, just be honest, like, how many of us we're working in an office get to watch basketball while working.
Not very many, you know, it was a little a lot less.
It was weird.
I still had that freedom because I chose to grow that there were three of us to get that business so that within within two years we had 52 employees in $18 million in revenue.
We chose that.
Could we have? Could I have made it easier on myself and worked less hours and maybe we would have gotten there in three years? Sure, probably could have.
We chose to do that exactly.
Nobody made no pointed ever.
Anybody ever say You have to do this? And you know what? Sometimes being a business owner means, like I remember the night I didn't the day I didn't sleep for 36 hours because their server crashed.
That's suck.
I didn't choose that.
Technically, that's about the only time I didn't choose something.
Yeah, I think it's a great point.
I mean, one of the things that I am realizing now that maybe we could have done differently, at least for me.
I don't know if only because it's so passionate about what he is doing.
That work doesn't really feel like work sometimes.
So it could be like seven days.
You know this.
Yeah, so and for me to be different because I'm also a mom.
What is a dad? But You know, I am a moment, You know, my kids at home.
I want to spend more time with its innovative.
But I have other things.
You know, much more things, Teoh.
You know many more things to do than him, you know, around.
And so for me, I think, like also when you get started, Uh, you know, setting up limits like like you said and rewarding yourself for the work that you've done.
And that's something we didn't do for a long time.
So, like when we moved back from from the US I don't know if you know that we used to live in California, So when we moved back, we could have spent We could have taken, like, two weeks off for even a month of vacation who's were working like crazy in the US, and we did not.
The reason we did not is because we didn't have a job.
We didn't have money coming, so we had money in the bank, was we had sold everything, but we didn't take that time to be want herself for all the work password, Dawn for 10 years.
And I think that was a big mistake.
So working how it's great but rewarding yourself with people simple things.
It's just sometimes spending time with friends and family doesn't have to be spending money, but it's rewarding and it's encouraging.
Teoh.
You know, it's like she took it going because, you know, you get do we want, you know, like And that's something I think we should have done.
And now we regret it that you know that you do now, like it feels like you listen to the podcast that's not coming out till tomorrow.
I think that I know you didn't get Nobody's listened.
Teoh have a podcast episode that literally comes out tomorrow.
Like as we're recording this in the title of the podcast is Let's celebrate and it's all to entrepreneurs.
We have this habit where most of us are achievers.
Most of us are not satisfied.
It's what my friend Hunting recalls a healthy discontent.
You know what way hit like, you know what is funny to say this and then I'll get back to that point.
I remember when my first company, when we hit $1000 in a day I remember what we did, we played KC and the Sunshine bans celebration song We danced around way stayed up to 11.
45 a night were refreshing the stats page We almost crashed our server refreshing so much And we hit $1000 like, Yeah, I remember when we hit $2000 in a day.
I remember when we hit $5000 in a day again said, By that time we had, like, 30 employees we put on party hats Were we played that, like the company shut down for the rest of the day And, you know, like the company shut down the next day because it happened late at night.
But we were calling each other like waking people up at 10.
30.
You know that we're young company.
Everybody was so excited.
Cracked Open some champagne.
You know what? I don't remember.
I don't remember when we hit 10,000.
I don't remember when we hit 20,000.
I don't remember when we hit 50,000.
I don't remember.
We had a few of them.
I don't remember the very first time we had $100,000 cells in one single day.
I don't remember that day.
We lost that culture of celebration.
Here's the thing.
So this this came about because of two things.
A guy that I heard speak the other day in our daughter back in June flipped the calendars.
July looked at the calendar, and on a random Tuesday I think it was July 27th.
She wrote, I love you day and you say, Well, it's Valentine's Day right now.
This is the day that she made up because I love you day.
It's just to celebrate the people that you love just politically.
Valentine's Day is a romantic day, just a data.
Do we have a day to celebrate when we have a day to celebrate mothers? We have Adele celebrate Father's.
You have a day just to celebrate everybody that we love.
Technically, no, she just made up a day.
We went out to dinner.
She was, so she was looking forward to it all month.
So the anticipation, their studies that show that actually, if you look at the brain chemistry of Children before Christmas and on Christmas Day, the positive feelings in their brain that there's more dopamine in the days leading up to Christmas, released as they think about Christmas and there actually is on Christmas.
Christmas? Yeah.
Okay.
Since there's this anticipation and then there's this excitement and then we celebrate it.
We make a big deal of it.
And so last night, no exaggeration.
Last night after midnight, my wife and I were talking Is it I want to put it on something on the calendar.
So, you know, we already have Christmas.
We have Thanksgiving at Halloween.
You got you know, we got stuff.
How is big for us? Cause we throw a huge Halloween party.
We've got our birthdays and stuff like, here's what I want.
I want to put on the calendar a day called Work from Home Day and we celebrate just one day here.
We actually celebrate.
Go on, celebrate the fact that we get to work from home.
I want to put on there.
I'm gonna put on a We're gonna make up a day called Little Sister Day.
Our big sister day.
Just get celebrate because our daughters a big sister, some things we need to have a little brother day later in the year and that we were like, we're gonna put on there.
We're gonna put on their curly hair day because everyone else in my family, my wife and my two kids have awesome blonde curly hair.
And I got stuck with this, you know, we're putting their there was Ah.
Oh, we're going to celebrate the day that we started our business.
We're gonna make a big deal like everyone to celebrate the anniversary of our business.
And then we're gonna do this this and we're going to celebrate that.
We're just gonna put these on the calendar.
And we're just gonna have celebrations, because today we're going to celebrate the fact that we worked from home.
Yeah, nobody takes the time to do that because we're all assuming, like, I know what I'm doing on September 1st, September 1st, the day after our launchings.
I'm thinking about the next launch.
Yeah, exactly.
We don't take the time.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
You have to be big things.
You want to celebrate your 1st $10,000 or $100,000? Celebrate that.
Celebrate that.
If you've quit your job.
If you quit your full time job and you work on your own now, don't ever forget the date.
Oh, forget that date.
But that down in your calendar and sell it.
Make a big deal out of every year.
Celebrating about to a fancy restaurant.
Open some champagne.
Do whatever's you need to do.
Take it off.
Where? A party hat.
I don't know, but celebrate the day that you quit your full time job, That's a big day.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
We were talking about this, actually, uh, I think a couple of days ago, week ago, when we were maybe two weeks ago with only here because he was saying, You know what? Last year when we decided to take two weeks off with two weeks off for us is allowed because I do a lot off.
I have a lot of meetings with leads in and clients eso.
You know, it's like two weeks where people can knock, take appointments, and that translates into less money.
And you said that months before he said you worked like crazy.
This wasn't biggest months.
Why? Because there was this anticipation that we were going on vacation.
We're going on vacation.
So I was old from top to get things done and said, you know, like it's we never get as much done as when you have.
I mean that is to me, something to live for watching.
Yeah, I tend to do this now.
It's like what? I'm doing this.
It has a purpose.
It's not just about making money.
It's that freedom that it's going to give me to go and see my kids that are on vacation.
Like now if I want to, Like, if we could if we wanted, we could take the car and go Now that's That's the lifestyle that we want you to be able to have, you know, being home when the kids get from school and stuff like that.
So sure, definitely celebrating.
We don't do enough of that.
But, uh, I look forward to death to the visit of podcasts or video support cast podcast, which, actually, it will be a video because everything I do has three forms that most most of you probably know that.
But in case you don't know, that's the secret to content.
Creation is I recorded video audio.
The audio becomes the pot.
Sometimes it's video first and podcast, sometimes podcast, first video, um, and then the audio.
If it has good reaction, we get some good vibes from the community that has taken and turned into a block post by somebody on my team who basically doesn't transcribe it but puts it into into written format.
Now it's three for one.
Yeah, you could do if you I don't do this for various reasons.
But if you really wanted, you could do live video into ah YouTube video into, ah, podcast into a block post.
And yeah, so I just want to create a crap ton of content over the next year.
Here we go.
Yeah, we recycle.
Recycle your content.
Absolutely So actually, it's a great position because the reason I mentioned that is because I've seen that you have the video Dogo when they have the copy, which I like to read.
I also like to watch the video.
I get distracted, I think, to get distracted by Dogo.
So there was a little bit off everybody, but there was one particular video that I really, really liked.
And that's the one that's called Cannot figure marketing changed the world.
When I really encourage people to go and listen to it on, we'll share dealing.
Definitely eso.
I'm just We read what I write because I culturally remember, I said you helped business owners leverage the power she grow their business.
Why, I feel it.
Marketing.
Can you share with us the power of being an affiliate and running and after get program? And is that for every type of business and when is a good time to start? I know when people get started with an online course, so a membership of product, they want to start a nephew a program, and then they want you to get as many affiliates.
It's possible that I said no, make sure it works.
First, you have some members.
So if you can tell us a bit about about that aspect, yeah, back to business.
Yes, you mentioned that video and I mean the gist of it.
Yeah, we'll definitely, you know, I encourage you to link to it, because but my my my premises like okay, changing the world's a pretty big concept, but it's like, How can affiliate marketing do that? Well, if you recommend a product to somebody and it transforms their life and you have completely transformed the world and that's a pretty big freakin deal, so and then scale that to hundreds or thousands of people and you've really made, you know, put a dent in the universe is Steve Jobs said.
As far as um, you know who can do a failing marking you mentioned? Does it work for every business? I'll put it this way.
I've never encountered a business that it doesn't work for.
We have students.
Eso I mentioned.
We teach how to do affiliate marketing, but we also teach how to run affiliate programs on the How to fund and run affiliate program side.
We've got every niche you could possibly conceive of on the affiliate marketing side, like how to make money with affiliate marketing and are no product, No problem course.
I mean, there are some of the most nici we have a lady who who's in there, who's killing it her entire niche.
This is all she does is traveling to Key West, Florida.
That's very specific.
Do something for a second.
Think for a second here.
Here's the world, right? There's Key West next.
Yeah, okay, that's it.
That tiny dot is key wet, not even it's not even that big, Okay? It's like half I should have used the more pointy part of that marker.
That's how small.
Her niches stone really well with the filling market.
Real estate agents, fitness instructors, people who blogged about raw foods.
We got raw foodies.
Uh, What? We have teachers, people who teach teachers, literally.
I mean, it's not It's less than 1/4 of the people, and either of our courses or what you would call Internet marketers.
They all have website actually know what? Not even every student, No product, no problem Starts off with website.
I just got an email today because what one of things I do with all of our new students is I I looked them up, find their website, read about him for 34 minutes and just record a quick personal video.
You know, it takes me about seven minutes to do, and that's one of the many reasons wire retention rates, like 99.
7%.
Um, but I could not find this lady's website for some of her not been able to find this lays website, so emailed are recorded.
This video said, hey, can't find your website.
So all I know about you is what I found on linked in it Looks like you're she's like, Yeah, I don't have a website yet, so we even have people without websites Yet that air getting into this.
And that's when I It's a great time to get into because you want to start affiliate marketing like Day one.
Here's the thing.
If a store opened up across town, it could be a furniture store.
It could be Wal Mart, you know, It could be a target.
It could be whatever.
They all have one thing in common and that is the sell stuff on the first day.
But we've been told as content creators that were supposed to create content and give, give, give, give, give.
There's a book that's ironically, it's propping up the bottom of my monitor right now because I had to lift my monitors on a whim today because they're interfering with my laptop WiFi.
Nobody knows why.
Craziest thing.
The channels air interfering.
So actually, to prop my monitors up in two inches, I don't have anything else that props him up two inches.
And that book is jab, jab, jab, right hook and the premises.
You know your job, you deputy.
Look.
No, I think I'm guessing you come out with that right hook.
You need tohave stuff.
You need to condition your audience to expect to buy stuff, because if you're running an online business, if you're running a hobby hobby block, I don't really care what you.
But if you're running an online business, you have to get this into your ethos into your mind that businesses make money.
It's OK.
Walmart doesn't apologize for selling stuff.
The furniture store doesn't apologize for selling stuff you to condition your audience to buy, to click into by.
And here's the thing.
If you don't do that early on, then they have conditioned them never to buy.
Get stuff free stuff.
Expect free stuff.
You're gonna get burned out because you're not making any money.
Businesses monetized, but early on, you don't have a product.
You know what your audience wants to buy.
Filet of marketing is a great way to get into that, because you can promote other people's stuff.
You don't have to spend 100 hours making a course or product you don't have to manufacture in China.
You promote stuff without creating it, and you go interesting.
My audience bought this at this price point, but they didn't buy that at that price point, what does that tell me about my audience? And you start to learn stuff about your audience? Because I could tell you all the demographic information about your audience right now, you still don't know what they're gonna have a financial transaction about.
And here's the key.
I'm not talking about somebody's worth as a human being, but to your business and email.
Subscriber is worth this.
The only thing that's worth anything is financial transactions.
So what I'm saying is a person is worthless to your business.
If there isn't a financial transaction at some point in Philly, marketing is the best way early on.
Now.
The flip side of that, you asked, should somebody have affiliates on Day one for their, um, company? I also just released a podcast episode.
Ironically, about this.
Just got asked this question by L.
Cole, who's an interior designer.
She's like, Well, my product launches later this year.
Should I have affiliates like No, not on day one.
So what we recommend is that you launch internally first, then you.
So depending upon your list size your audience size, you might segment your audience.
So let's just save a list of 1000 people.
What I would personally do is launch to about 300 people, then another 300 people in the last 400 or, you know, whatever 3 33 threes or it doesn't matter.
I would do three launches separated.
The start point separated by about 4 to 7 days so you can learn stuff as you go and you can tweak and you can change.
Then I would take a little bit of a break and I would step back.
Okay, let's just say you had ah sales video.
And for whatever reason, like everyone's dropping off your sales video with seven minute and 14 2nd mark.
When you go look at your sales video.
A sales video redo is not something you can typically do in a few days.
It might take you a couple of weeks, so you take a little bit of time off.
Then you start running cold traffic, meaning facebook or linked.
It adds to your offer.
You run those you just keep, keep running him.
You know, evergreen.
10 people a day, 50 people a day and you start learning stuff.
You start optimizing every day you're getting better, because most of the tweets you're gonna make are given example.
We tweaked one of our webinar registration pages the other day from how much I made in one month to how much I made in one week.
It's technically the same number.
If you multiply the weekly number by 52 divided by 12 you get the same number, right? But that's you know it was just messaging were from like an 87 to a 95% registration, right, opt in rate on the webinar page.
That's huge.
It's 8% gain, you know means massive with that little tweak.
So a lot of times it's just those little things that you're doing as you go along, that you're learning.
And so you do that too cold traffic.
Then you work with a couple of affiliates one on one.
These were people who promote you because it's you.
So I want like Nadal, you're gonna work with Natalee's friends.
Not like this guy over here who's asking, What's the E.
P.
C on this offer? No.
Who know that you do not want to work with them at first, you want to work with people who are doing it for you.
They don't care if they make 11,000 You know, 9000.
If you have a 4% conversion rate of 6% conversion rate, they're doing it for you.
You're now optimizing and the new rinse and repeat that as needed.
The cool thing about this is this is not like Step one, then step to stay in step three than in step for you can do these sequentially and they can.
There can be some overlap in the typical process.
Takes anywhere from 3 to 6 months.
I've seen it done quicker.
I've seen it done longer.
I've seen people who want to get it really dialed.
Then they take a year before they bring on affiliates, you know.
So for us, we've done this so many times that for us it took about seven months, you know, with our part, like after seven months, I was like, Cool, we're ready.
Let's you know, let's start bringing him on.
And here we are.
We've got our big launch coming up, and but we've been through that process and optimized so that I can predict what this is going to do.
I know this is profitable thing for our affiliates, and we're comfortable with it, but you cannot do that on day one.
Yeah.
I mean, this is awesome what you just shared.
I have never heard of it.
I mean, you know, segmenting like 300 by 300.
That is super small.
Because, you know, it gives you time like you said to do the small tweaks.
But you don't want to change everything either, because otherwise you don't know what works.
What doesn't work, right? And if you know if this is your fifth product, you can accelerate that.
Absolutely.
Your fifth product.
And you've got a list of 20,000 people.
I might launch it to a list of 2000 and then might just do the next 18,000.
You know, um and I might start.
You're gonna you're gonna notice the the process as you go through is gonna be hyper accelerated.
Um, you know, you might even just go and put the launch date with your affiliates on the calendar five months later and you're fine.
It's just if your very first product and you just I mean, the reality is like we learn.
The thing I think about marketing is I learned the craziest things Every time I do a campaign.
I think I'm pretty smart at this.
And the reality is the only reason why I'm any good at this is because I'm willing to be wrong half the time.
Yeah, I something like public school.
Private school doesn't matter.
The modern education system is a terrible precursor to running a small business because it teaches you that if you're wrong, you fail.
Yeah, I think about it.
I'm wrong.
I mean, of the split test.
I've run 50% of the time.
Maybe 49.
I was probably right.
51% of time, 49% of time.
I was wrong about what was gonna win a versus B.
Does that make me a terrible marketer? No, Cause guess what? It makes a small text.
Everything we're running right now was a winner running losers anymore.
Because we've picked the winners.
So but think about modern education tells me that if I only get it right 51% of time, that's an f like, that's a bad f.
You're the dumb kid in class.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Apparently I'm the dumb kid in class, and yet, and I think that's one of the reasons why also people are So I have this mental block, this fear of failure.
It's not just about what people are going to sing, but it's because we've been conditioned to think that feeling is that I mean us.
It's a big better because you know, they you know, we've we've been in us, so we know that that's period where it's actually the encourage.
People like when you start a business and it fails and you start another one, we don't have problems, Mr Bank, right? We'll try that in France.
When you fell, you saw.
So go find a job because there like here failing is is not seeing as you know, you family Did you succeed, right? So it's not sit being seen as as a step, you know, towards, you know, achieving something.
It's more like, Well, you were wrong, you know, do something else so and that I mean, I totally agree with you, and that's the reason why so many people have this mental blocks this fear off off doing because they don't want to feel exactly awesome.
So let me see if I have something else here before we wrap up.
Um, I think we kind of talked about this.
And what did you do to share how you managed to balance life in business? Uh, but do you have anything else you want to add? You know, I do have I want to make sure we don't forget this.
Put together a special page for your honest audience.
Natalie, matt McWilliams dot com fort slash lifestyle And I've got two things we've actually one of which we've never given away before.
Um, the 1st 1 I've got an e book that we wrote called the 10 Benefits of Affiliate Marketing.
Before you have a product, this is what we've been talking about.
You don't know what your audience is willing to buy, and we go through these benefits.
It's not.
There's actually some that I've never shared before.
That a really powerful benefits.
The 2nd 1 I just finished working on this actually last week, and it's a free report we put together about how I made over $10,000 passive income in one month from a single page of my website.
So man McQueen's dot com fort slash lifestyle.
Go get both of those.
And this is my Thank you for having me on Natalie.
Well, thank you so much.
I will definitely put their links.
The legs will be in their emails as well.
And I will also pretending to Matt matt McWilliams dot com where we can see your podcasting videos and how you actually organized this.
I mean, we can really learn from this.
I really loved it.
Uh, And your question? Yeah.
I wanna answer your question.
How do I balance business and in life, I think it's I mean it.
Certainly.
I think it's actually a faulty question.
Yeah.
Do you think that was a way? Not like a massively out of balance.
And in February, they were massively out of balance because I didn't know in December they were massively out of bounds command and think about work for three weeks.
Um, I think to sort of answer the underlying question.
I think for me it is the rules.
For instance, I have a rule.
Um, four days a week.
My hard cut off is 4 30 Army 5 30 That is my hard cut off and what that means is typically at 5 24 you can see I'm working so feverishly.
It's not even funny.
And at 5 30 I go.
If you ever watched one of those cooking shows where they have, like, 30 minutes to make additional go hands off and then I go upstairs for 10 minutes, I put on some white noise and I meditate just to bring me down from that.
So then, at 5 42 or so, I'm all there for my family.
That's one.
It sounds really crazy, but that's like, You know, I think it's suppressed.
My family has me, except for one day a week, from 5 40 or so until 8 30 You know bad time.
I'm there for almost three hours with them.
I don't miss a soccer practice.
I don't miss a soccer game.
I've never missed one.
I've never missed almost anything important in this section, literally the first time I've ever missed a family vacation on.
It's just a 36 hour vacation, so I don't feel as bad about it.
It's just it's really just sending those boundaries, you know, and it's it's about.
The other thing is like I think you have to remove the guilt from both sides.
I cannot feel guilty when I do this interview that that means I can't spend time with my family.
And I cannot feel guilty thinking that the world is going to come to an end.
If after this interview I were to go play soccer for 30 minutes and didn't answer that question from my team, I can't feel guilty either way.
If you remove guilt and shame from the equation, then you really will found find that over the course of a month there's balance.
Nothing is yet like I just don't look at things on a daily basis.
Works our stay.
My life is so out of balance.
Look at things like Take pan out and look OK, look at things.
Maybe by two months at a time, you know, and it ultimately look and see what was life balance will.
You had 34 day weekends in that two month period.
He also had five nights Where you were you worked at night Was that balance will.
Overall, it's pretty balanced, so just don't don't detect the guilt out of both sides.
Absolutely biggest thing you can do for yourself for your sake.
And I think that it's important that whether you're making money or not, even if your especially I want to say sure, getting started to just put this war's from day one it's not because you're not making money that you cannot do that otherwise, because running a business is running America, right? So you're really found a long run.
So Reedville destroys and they're hard, like you said the Guild, because we're not making money and stopping at 5 30 Like he said, You know that can be difficult for people, but that's critical for your sanity, you know, family, your family life in for being in it in the long run.
Basically.
You got it.
Yeah, well, thank you so much, Matt.
It was so nice to meet you.
Want to chat with you? I think we got some great stuff about lifestyle afternoon marketing.
I definitely want to check your book when it's ready.
While it should be ready now, by the time we hear And, uh, thank you so much again, it's Matt.
Matt Williams, that com slash lifestyle, and I will definitely put any Thank you so much.
Much.
Thank you, Aunt Olivia.
I said hello.
I'll definitely will.
All right, Take care.
Bye bye.

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